tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post6252345831955216233..comments2024-01-08T05:15:14.232-08:00Comments on Buckhorn Road: A leftist's idea of "enlightened"W.R. Chandlerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-60877071004963254812007-12-21T06:23:00.000-08:002007-12-21T06:23:00.000-08:00Donalbain,Thank you for proving my point.Merry Chr...Donalbain,<BR/>Thank you for proving my point.<BR/><BR/>Merry ChristmasW.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-10572154849531521712007-12-21T05:39:00.000-08:002007-12-21T05:39:00.000-08:00Fair enough. You failed to show ANY evidence that ...Fair enough. You failed to show ANY evidence that an atheist is more likely to be a murderer than a theist.<BR/>What you have shown is that a small number of atheists were murderers. However, that says NOTHING about atheists in general. Any more than the fact that Hitler, Torquemada, Osama and others were murderers says nothing about how likely a theist is to be moral or not. It really is very basic statistics that we are talking about.<BR/><BR/>Still, if you are so insecure in your own moral sense that you imagine that others who dont believe in a god won't have one, then I feel a little sorry for you and I draw this conversation to a close. Have a nice Christmas!Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-65781302164440778122007-12-20T19:20:00.000-08:002007-12-20T19:20:00.000-08:00Wow, I'd say the teacher was right and the student...Wow, I'd say the teacher was right and the student wrong again....The Vegas Art Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09800692010017718392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-91448879116337375112007-12-20T12:17:00.000-08:002007-12-20T12:17:00.000-08:00Here is an example of what it is like to debate Do...Here is an example of what it is like to debate Donalbain:<BR/><BR/>D: What color is the sky?<BR/>C: Blue<BR/>D: Ha! You're wrong! Some days its gray with clouds, or orange when the sun sets!<BR/>C: True enough, but generally, it's blue.<BR/>D: Do you have any evidence of this?<BR/>C: Well, mostly, when I walk out the door in the morning, its blue.<BR/>D: My word, you do love to shift your arguments! I asked you for evidence that the sky is blue, and you are talking to me about walking out your door in the morning.<BR/><BR/>Merry Christmas, DonalbainW.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-69734080054018914552007-12-20T11:05:00.000-08:002007-12-20T11:05:00.000-08:00OK. I will ask ONCE more and then, if you come up ...OK. I will ask ONCE more and then, if you come up with an irrelevant point again, I will leave it be.<BR/><BR/>Please provide some evidence that an atheist is more likely to be immoral than a theist.<BR/><BR/>Some handy hints to help you out.<BR/><BR/>1) The actions of a small or unknown number of atheists tell us nothing about atheists in general. Just as the actions of Osama, Hitler or Torequemada tell us nothing about theists in general.<BR/><BR/>2) The USA has a constitution based on secular principles. There is nothing in it that refers to Christianity or Judaism<BR/><BR/>Now, give it one more try... I am sure you can do better than your last couple of throws of the dice.Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-76156636298192084242007-12-20T07:16:00.000-08:002007-12-20T07:16:00.000-08:00You asked me for evidence, I gave you evidence. S...You asked me for evidence, I gave you evidence. Sounds like you are the one doing the shifting.<BR/><BR/>More evidence? How about over 100 million graves - marked and unmarked - of people killed in the name of Godless communism. Of course you disagree with that, but of course you do - it blows your argument out of the water.W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-19883274802168817272007-12-19T23:33:00.000-08:002007-12-19T23:33:00.000-08:00My word, you DO love to shift your arguments aroun...My word, you DO love to shift your arguments around when they don't stand up, don't you?<BR/>We went from religion is NECESSARY for morality to more people move to the USA than to North Korea in just 6 or 7 easy moves. <BR/><BR/>If you ever find some evidence that "GENERALLY, religious people tend to be more moral than non-religious people." then let me know. OK?Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-60594648794052855862007-12-19T14:27:00.000-08:002007-12-19T14:27:00.000-08:00No, my argument stands. Generally, countries run ...No, my argument stands. Generally, countries run on atheistic principles tend to be murderous as hell.<BR/><BR/>Evidence? I would start with peoples' feet. The United States was founded on and somewhat continues to abide by Judeo-Christian principles, and people around the world are beating down the door in an attempt to live here.<BR/><BR/>What was and what is the immigration rate for countries founded on atheistic principles? There aren't a lot of people turning the roof of their house into a boat in order to move to North Korea.W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-36556837072199046142007-12-19T09:19:00.000-08:002007-12-19T09:19:00.000-08:00Oh. So, when you SAID were talking about atheist i...Oh. So, when you SAID were talking about atheist in general and making general claims, you were instead talking about a very small number of people. Thank you for your consistency. <BR/>And since I am not on "the side" of the regimes of Cuba, Nazi Germany (the leadership of which was NOT atheist by the way) or any of the others, how am I on the wrong side of history?<BR/><BR/>Why dont you try again and show some EVIDENCE that an atheist is more likely to be immoral than a religious personDonalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-22728995460721796622007-12-19T07:29:00.000-08:002007-12-19T07:29:00.000-08:00Individual people in those countries may have been...Individual people in those countries may have been religious, but the official ideology and the people in charge - you know, the ones who did the killing - were atheist.<BR/><BR/>These religious people in Cuba and the Soviet Union of which you speak were the ones who were often persecuted, jailed, and killed. Remember your Marx: "Religion is the opiate of the masses".<BR/><BR/>I know it sucks to be on the wrong side of history, but it is just something you are going to have to live with.W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-58633274915012818412007-12-18T22:39:00.000-08:002007-12-18T22:39:00.000-08:00Excellent. Well done. I knew you would come up wit...Excellent. Well done. I knew you would come up with those. And as it happens,most people in Cuba are not atheist. It is a strongly Catholic country. Nazi Germany was not an atheist country either. The Soviet Union had a majority population of Russian Orthodox worshipers. But congratulations on coming up with the same old incorrect claims that insecure theists always have to make when they feel that people cant be moral without a big guy in the sky telling them what to do.Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-66327069207852911622007-12-18T12:12:00.000-08:002007-12-18T12:12:00.000-08:00Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, China, Cuba, Cambodia,...Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, China, Cuba, Cambodia, North Korea: All atheist.<BR/><BR/>Death toll from these atheist countries: Well over 100 million dead and counting.W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-59257105310929641382007-12-18T09:49:00.000-08:002007-12-18T09:49:00.000-08:00OK. You say that in general, religious people are ...OK. You say that in general, religious people are more moral than atheist people. That leaves us with you making a claim that you have utterly failed to support. You are a history teacher you say?<BR/><BR/>As it happens, I seem to recall some data that suggests that in the prison population of the USA, atheists are actually UNDER represented. Now, I know that simply saying that is not the same as showing the data, but I will now have a quick google and see what I can come up with. If you would care to present any data that shows your claim to be correct, then I would be FASCINATED to see it.Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-26714053305686125592007-12-18T00:22:00.000-08:002007-12-18T00:22:00.000-08:00If you are going to address issues on an individua...If you are going to address issues on an individual basis, you can always find an exception to the rule, e.g., of course there are immoral religious people out there. However, when dealing with millions of people in a country, you have to deal with things on a general basis. GENERALLY, religious people tend to be more moral than non-religious people. Are there moral non-religious people? Of course; that goes back to my individual vs. general argument.<BR/><BR/>You say Washington and Adams are wrong, I say they are right. So where does that leave us? It leaves us with me saying that you are wrong, and I am right.<BR/><BR/>There, that was easy!W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-26914237528627051222007-12-17T23:00:00.000-08:002007-12-17T23:00:00.000-08:00You KEEP coming up with opinions of mine without a...You KEEP coming up with opinions of mine without asking me what they are. Thats a very strange technique. I have no opinion about the founding fathers what so ever. They are just some dead people who had some opinions about some things. Just because they are "founding" doesn't mean they are right about anything. And acting as if a quote from one of them somehow shuts down an argument is a poor debating tactic. Indeed, it is the argument from authority that I mentioned before. To give my favourite example, Einstein was one of the greatest scientists who ever lived, but giving a quote from him expressing doubt on quantum mechanics would be silly, since he was wrong. And in this case, the founding fathers were wrong. It is entirely possible to be a moral person without any religious beliefs. I am a living example of that, since I am an atheist, but I have a well developed set of morals. Indeed, so do many, many atheists.<BR/><BR/>It is my experience that religious people can be moral, they can be immoral. Same with non religious people. Of course, not everyone will have the same moral ideas, that is only to be expected given how many human beings there are, and how many societies we live in BUT being WITHOUT morals is exceptionally rare and I have never met anyone who is truly amoral, and I have no idea how the state correlates to religious belief.Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-35944885904377733472007-12-17T21:56:00.000-08:002007-12-17T21:56:00.000-08:00donalbain -"A couple of dead guys", you call them....donalbain -<BR/><BR/>"A couple of dead guys", you call them. That is all I need to know from you.<BR/><BR/>Of course, you being a Brit and all, you are probably a bit biased against the founding fathers of the United States. Too bad we beat ya twice!W.R. Chandlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05908482384887766964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-22834249571951783922007-12-17T18:44:00.000-08:002007-12-17T18:44:00.000-08:00I saw this column in the Burlington (VT) Free Pres...I saw this column in the Burlington (VT) Free Press this morning. I had the same reaction to the "enlightened views" comment you did. Presumptive and elitist? You are being far too nice!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-61590664443352064382007-12-17T14:17:00.000-08:002007-12-17T14:17:00.000-08:00Excellent! Now, not only am I not free, but I am a...Excellent! Now, not only am I not free, but I am amoral I am glad you are here to explain these things to me. I was under the impression that I had a well developed set of morals that i base mainly on the idea of empathy and the desire to live in a world filled with more happiness than sadness. But thankfully, you and a couple of dead guys are there to state that I was wrong. Phew!<BR/><BR/>PS, you do know that argument from authority is a logical fallacy don't you?Donalbainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16807822953642571752noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-21521746436490438052007-12-16T17:56:00.000-08:002007-12-16T17:56:00.000-08:00Correction: "an" evildoer. (Wake up, Fluffy.)Correction: "an" evildoer. (Wake up, Fluffy.)Don, American Idlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16987777284657808585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-14648942.post-65584215964117142402007-12-16T17:54:00.000-08:002007-12-16T17:54:00.000-08:00I'm DEFINITELY not a lefty, but I believe a dead h...I'm DEFINITELY not a lefty, but I believe a dead human being is a dead human being, whether it be an unborn baby or a adult evildoer. I can't condone killing either of them. In the case of criminals, it is a harder call, but I think it's consistent.Don, American Idlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16987777284657808585noreply@blogger.com